[Compcomm] [Fwd: Re: The Next Step]

Tue Apr 24 08:33:58 EDT 2007

nesl247 wrote:
> For dollarrrs 160 if I remember correctly, vB is definitely not worth it.
> phpBB3 isn't gol d yet, so of course it's not going to have a release
> immediately, but I haven't heard of any security vulnerabilities yet
> either.
>   

To avoid over zealous spam filters, please avoid using the dollar symbol 
and
the word gol d in the same sentence ;)

> And of course vB can afford to put out a fix immediately, their
> getting paid to! phpBB usually does within a day or so if it's major.
> So phpBB is definitely not slow in development.
>
> And really, you're going to base the decision based on AJAX stuff? I
> gurantee you phpBB3 will have a mod for it shortly after it's
> released. As far as the plugin system for vB, while it might be nice,
> it still requires manual edits. So it's not _much_ better than phpBB3.
>
> And upgrading phpBB3 is quite simple. They release code changes, that
> you manually apply if you have mods. So it makes editing a modded
> forum easily. I've got enough experience with it, having modded forums
> with 200+ mods before, all working 100%.
>
> And if I'm correct, there have been a few people who stated they've
> seen an improvement when using phpBB3 over vB in terms of performance,
> and vB is a known resource hog anyways.
>
> And extensibility, that's definitely a winner for phpBB 2 and 3.
> They're both easily modded. If you don't believe me, go look at
> Categories Hierarchy. It basically rewrote a lot of phpBB2's code
> because it wasn't at it's best, yet it's a mod. I highly doubt you can
> do that in a vB "plugin".
>
> "reported posts, built-in warnings & infractions system" Well, sorry
> to burst your bubble, but phpBB3 has this also.
>
> And for those who administrate the boards, phpBB3's permission and
> overall ACP is just a better system. It's a lot less confusing, and a
> lot better organized.
>
> On 4/24/07, Stephen Moore <delfick755 at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> i can't wait till someone somehow manages to argue against that (as always
>> happens).....
>>
>> to me, that sounds like a decent reason :D
>>
>> btw, how much does vbulletin cost ??
>>
>>
>>  On 4/24/07, Matthew Swaringen <xanas3712 at matrixcentral.net> wrote:
>>     
>>> Since we are back on the argument about vbulletin again I found the
>>> argument made for it by will he was referring to.  I didn't see any
>>> other extensive argumentation besides the back and forths over this one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 04:26 +0200, RYX wrote:
>>>       
>>>> What is the exact reason why we don't use phpBB3? It is free and it is
>>>> open-source ... I tried it and I can't see a reason for not using it. I
>>>> find it quite ironic to use commercial software for an open-source
>>>> project's site and have no good feeling about that ... it's kind of
>>>> immoral.
>>>>         
>>> Morality is not, and should not, be a factor in the equation for two
>>> reasons:
>>>
>>> 1) Morality is _very, very_ subjective (by nature) and no person's
>>> morality is the same as another's. Deciding forum software based upon
>>> morality will lead to nothing more than disagreements: as such the forum
>>> software should be decided by software's merit.
>>>
>>> 2) There is nothing immoral or amoral with proprietary software. There
>>> are companies that may be immoral with their software, yes, but that is
>>> as a result of the company's policies.
>>>
>>> When it comes to code quality, features, expandability, maintenance,
>>> upkeep, security, and performance, vBulletin is the simply the best
>>> software available.
>>>
>>> This of course brings into play the whole argument that "Open Source is
>>> actively developed, so security must not be an issue, right?" Well, no.
>>> While it's good in theory, and if development is constant, the PHPBB3
>>> development is not nearly as active as other projects (like Firefox for
>>> example) who can make sure a patch for a security flaw is out and being
>>> actively distributed within say 24 hours of finding the flaw. As far as
>>> security goes, vBulletin has in impeccable record of not only being more
>>> secure to begin with, but also releasing patches ASAP.
>>>
>>> The biggest downfall of PHPBB is not even that, however. The biggest
>>> flaw, is without a doubt, the pure inability to maintain and keep PHPBB
>>> up-to-date and secure without hours upon hours of manual hacking on the
>>> source code. This is a wasted effort.
>>>
>>> vBulletin uses a system called Products and Plugins. What these are, in
>>> lay-men terms, are a series of methods by which scripts/plugins can use
>>> hooks to inject or modify code that renders the page without manually
>>> editing the source. What this achieves is not only a lot of saved effort
>>> in expanding the features of the forum, but also make maintainability an
>>> easy task.
>>>
>>> When it comes to vBulletin upgrades, you won't ever need to hack the
>>> source. The most difficult it becomes is possibly doing a few minor
>>> patching to the theme and, if needed, any upgrades to installed plugins
>>> or products. One can fully upgrade their vBulletin installation in 20
>>> minutes handily.
>>>
>>> However, with PHPBB, you will be hand-editing the source no matter what.
>>> You either take the current source and just manually apply the diff for
>>> every file - most of the time without any exterior aid because if you've
>>> applied any hack to the code, chances are the changes won't be _exactly_
>>> correct. The other route, is to install the new version, and then hope
>>> that you can reapply all your old hacks again. As the forum grows, the
>>> complications in upgrading just get worse and worse and more
>>> time-consuming.
>>>
>>> In regards to features, vBulletin offers much that PHPBB cannot even
>>> attempt to match. AJAX Quick Reply, Multi-Quote, AJAX thread/post
>>> editing, reported posts, built-in warnings & infractions system,
>>> plugins, products, users viewing the thread, similar threads, etc etc.
>>> The list literally goes on and on. These features all combine to make a
>>> better user experience.
>>>
>>> But above all else, common sense enters the scene. Many corporations and
>>> extremely large websites (see: Something Awful and MTGSalvation and
>>> Ubuntu Forums) use vBulletin rather than PHPBB or other pay-for
>>> alternatives. There's a _reason_ for this. vBulletin simply is the best
>>> software for any large, growing community. It's a matter of nothing more
>>> than "you get what you pay for".
>>>
>>>         Aside: The first person to mention Microsoft is getting flamed.
>>>                The reason? It's not applicable here. Microsoft has
>>>                essentially had a monopoly for a long while. In contrast,
>>>                the forum software business has plenty of competition and
>>>                has for a long while.
>>>
>>>
>>> So what justifies all this added stuff? The community.
>>>
>>> The Beryl forum was one of the most-quickly-growing forums on the net.
>>> It achieved 30,000+ posts in... 6 months? Mind, it's not a Something
>>> Awful-level of posting, but it's far more than many forums even see in
>>> four times that amount of time.
>>>
>>> The Compiz community was fairly active and steadily growing to begin
>>> with. Now we've literally just poured the Beryl community in with the
>>> mix. This expansion is rapid and _will_ continue. As the merge finishes
>>> and development goes into full swing, and as more distributions include
>>> Compiz by default, the Compiz forum stands to continue this trend of
>>> expanding generally rapidly.
>>>
>>> With this trend being nothing more than inevitable, we need a software
>>> that is:
>>>
>>> 1) Maintainable
>>> 2) Expandable
>>> 3) Secure
>>>
>>> vBulletin sufficiently provides all three and more. PHPBB3 simply does
>>> not and will not be able to for what appears to be a long time. PHPBB is
>>> a good project, make no mistake. However, it is suited to small forums
>>> that see little to moderate activity. It is not suited in the least to a
>>> growing community.
>>>
>>> The only reasonable choice here _is_ vBulletin.
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Isn't it more open-source-like to help improving pphBB and support the
>>>> phpBB-project - instead of supporting some commercial company?? If
>>>> everyone would think like that, there would be no open-source at all ...
>>>>         
>>> Unless our community is filled with about 30 PHP and SQL experts who can
>>> code on PHPBB3 full-time for the next 90 days, there is no way that
>>> PHPBB3 could possibly support the current and future needs of the
>>> community. ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> Just as a matter of note, I've actively used PHPBB2, PHPBB3, vBulletin,
>>> IPB, MyBB, and other forum softwares, and currently am the maintainer of
>>> two separate forums using vBulletin.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CompComm mailing list
>>> CompComm at Rock3d.org
>>> http://www.ubaight.com/mailman/listinfo/compcomm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CompComm mailing list
>>> CompComm at Rock3d.org
>>> http://www.ubaight.com/mailman/listinfo/compcomm
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> CompComm mailing list
>> CompComm at Rock3d.org
>> http://www.ubaight.com/mailman/listinfo/compcomm
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>