[Compcomm] [Fwd: Re: The Next Step]

Tue Apr 24 08:47:05 EDT 2007

Sam, did you even read my post at all? No where did I say because it's
free, I just mentioned the price because someone asked how much the
license was.\

And I listed all the reasons phpBB is better, or arguments against
Will's arguments as to why vB is better.

And yes, some users do care what forum software is used. Maybe if you
took the time out to go and read, you'd have noticed that by now.

On 4/24/07, Sam Spilsbury <smspillaz at gmail.com> wrote:
> OK. Thats it.
>
> If someone wants to PAY for vBulliten then LET THEM! Dont just go "Oh wah
> wah, vB not OSS, were OSS wah wah vb costs money wah wah wah weve always
> used phpBB wah wah wah."
>
> I'm not really too sure what phpBB's advantages are here but if someone
> wants to pay for vB then let them. its obvious that vB is 100x better than
> phpBB (Subjective statement, do not take seriously). Honestly the users DONT
> CARE what forum software we use. OSS is good but OSS zealots are BAD!!!!
> >:(. Honestly, please dont argue the "You can modify the source to make it
> teh betaz!!!!!!!" because the phpBB source is complicated and NOBODY here
> knows how to hack it.
>
> If someone wants to use and pay for vB then LET THEM!
>
> Btw vBulletin costs about $160 US which is about AUD$210 (Hi delfick ;-) )
>
> On 4/24/07, Stephen Moore <delfick755 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > i can't wait till someone somehow manages to argue against that (as always
> happens).....
> >
> > to me, that sounds like a decent reason :D
> >
> > btw, how much does vbulletin cost ??
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/24/07, Matthew Swaringen <xanas3712 at matrixcentral.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Since we are back on the argument about vbulletin again I found the
> > > argument made for it by will he was referring to.  I didn't see any
> > > other extensive argumentation besides the back and forths over this one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 04:26 +0200, RYX wrote:
> > > > What is the exact reason why we don't use phpBB3? It is free and it is
> > > > open-source ... I tried it and I can't see a reason for not using it.
> I
> > > > find it quite ironic to use commercial software for an open-source
> > > > project's site and have no good feeling about that ... it's kind of
> > > > immoral.
> > >
> > > Morality is not, and should not, be a factor in the equation for two
> > > reasons:
> > >
> > > 1) Morality is _very, very_ subjective (by nature) and no person's
> > > morality is the same as another's. Deciding forum software based upon
> > > morality will lead to nothing more than disagreements: as such the forum
> > > software should be decided by software's merit.
> > >
> > > 2) There is nothing immoral or amoral with proprietary software. There
> > > are companies that may be immoral with their software, yes, but that is
> > > as a result of the company's policies.
> > >
> > > When it comes to code quality, features, expandability, maintenance,
> > > upkeep, security, and performance, vBulletin is the simply the best
> > > software available.
> > >
> > > This of course brings into play the whole argument that "Open Source is
> > > actively developed, so security must not be an issue, right?" Well, no.
> > > While it's good in theory, and if development is constant, the PHPBB3
> > > development is not nearly as active as other projects (like Firefox for
> > > example) who can make sure a patch for a security flaw is out and being
> > > actively distributed within say 24 hours of finding the flaw. As far as
> > > security goes, vBulletin has in impeccable record of not only being more
> > > secure to begin with, but also releasing patches ASAP.
> > >
> > > The biggest downfall of PHPBB is not even that, however. The biggest
> > > flaw, is without a doubt, the pure inability to maintain and keep PHPBB
> > > up-to-date and secure without hours upon hours of manual hacking on the
> > > source code. This is a wasted effort.
> > >
> > > vBulletin uses a system called Products and Plugins. What these are, in
> > > lay-men terms, are a series of methods by which scripts/plugins can use
> > > hooks to inject or modify code that renders the page without manually
> > > editing the source. What this achieves is not only a lot of saved effort
> > > in expanding the features of the forum, but also make maintainability an
> > > easy task.
> > >
> > > When it comes to vBulletin upgrades, you won't ever need to hack the
> > > source. The most difficult it becomes is possibly doing a few minor
> > > patching to the theme and, if needed, any upgrades to installed plugins
> > > or products. One can fully upgrade their vBulletin installation in 20
> > > minutes handily.
> > >
> > > However, with PHPBB, you will be hand-editing the source no matter what.
> > > You either take the current source and just manually apply the diff for
> > > every file - most of the time without any exterior aid because if you've
> > > applied any hack to the code, chances are the changes won't be _exactly_
> > > correct. The other route, is to install the new version, and then hope
> > > that you can reapply all your old hacks again. As the forum grows, the
> > > complications in upgrading just get worse and worse and more
> > > time-consuming.
> > >
> > > In regards to features, vBulletin offers much that PHPBB cannot even
> > > attempt to match. AJAX Quick Reply, Multi-Quote, AJAX thread/post
> > > editing, reported posts, built-in warnings & infractions system,
> > > plugins, products, users viewing the thread, similar threads, etc etc.
> > > The list literally goes on and on. These features all combine to make a
> > > better user experience.
> > >
> > > But above all else, common sense enters the scene. Many corporations and
> > > extremely large websites (see: Something Awful and MTGSalvation and
> > > Ubuntu Forums) use vBulletin rather than PHPBB or other pay-for
> > > alternatives. There's a _reason_ for this. vBulletin simply is the best
> > > software for any large, growing community. It's a matter of nothing more
> > > than "you get what you pay for".
> > >
> > >         Aside: The first person to mention Microsoft is getting flamed.
> > >                The reason? It's not applicable here. Microsoft has
> > >                essentially had a monopoly for a long while. In contrast,
> > >                the forum software business has plenty of competition and
> > >                has for a long while.
> > >
> > >
> > > So what justifies all this added stuff? The community.
> > >
> > > The Beryl forum was one of the most-quickly-growing forums on the net.
> > > It achieved 30,000+ posts in... 6 months? Mind, it's not a Something
> > > Awful-level of posting, but it's far more than many forums even see in
> > > four times that amount of time.
> > >
> > > The Compiz community was fairly active and steadily growing to begin
> > > with. Now we've literally just poured the Beryl community in with the
> > > mix. This expansion is rapid and _will_ continue. As the merge finishes
> > > and development goes into full swing, and as more distributions include
> > > Compiz by default, the Compiz forum stands to continue this trend of
> > > expanding generally rapidly.
> > >
> > > With this trend being nothing more than inevitable, we need a software
> > > that is:
> > >
> > > 1) Maintainable
> > > 2) Expandable
> > > 3) Secure
> > >
> > > vBulletin sufficiently provides all three and more. PHPBB3 simply does
> > > not and will not be able to for what appears to be a long time. PHPBB is
> > > a good project, make no mistake. However, it is suited to small forums
> > > that see little to moderate activity. It is not suited in the least to a
> > > growing community.
> > >
> > > The only reasonable choice here _is_ vBulletin.
> > >
> > > > Isn't it more open-source-like to help improving pphBB and support the
> > > > phpBB-project - instead of supporting some commercial company?? If
> > > > everyone would think like that, there would be no open-source at all
> ...
> > >
> > > Unless our community is filled with about 30 PHP and SQL experts who can
> > > code on PHPBB3 full-time for the next 90 days, there is no way that
> > > PHPBB3 could possibly support the current and future needs of the
> > > community. ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > Just as a matter of note, I've actively used PHPBB2, PHPBB3, vBulletin,
> > > IPB, MyBB, and other forum softwares, and currently am the maintainer of
> > > two separate forums using vBulletin.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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-- 
Alex Heck - nesl247