[Compcomm] [Fwd: Re: The Next Step]

Stephen Moore delfick755 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 24 08:50:19 EDT 2007 

is that all ??

lol

here's me imagining something expensive.....

but the question becomes who do we believe....

personally, from my non-techinical viewpoint, both arguements have some
believability to them (not the right word but it'll do :D)

so either way, i'll be happy (so long as we get a decent front page and the
sections are split into subsections (all laid out on the first page, in the
very nice ubuntu style ) :D

..........

is there some way of creating a compulsory poll among users with three
options

1) vbulletin
2) open source alternatives
3) either

so we can get a decent number of people voting..... ??

On 4/24/07, Sam Spilsbury <smspillaz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK. Thats it.
>
> If someone wants to PAY for vBulliten then LET THEM! Dont just go "Oh wah
> wah, vB not OSS, were OSS wah wah vb costs money wah wah wah weve always
> used phpBB wah wah wah."
>
> I'm not really too sure what phpBB's advantages are here but if someone
> wants to pay for vB then let them. its obvious that vB is 100x better than
> phpBB (Subjective statement, do not take seriously). Honestly the users DONT
> CARE what forum software we use. OSS is good but OSS zealots are BAD!!!!
> >:(. Honestly, please dont argue the "You can modify the source to make it
> teh betaz!!!!!!!" because the phpBB source is complicated and NOBODY here
> knows how to hack it.
>
> If someone wants to use and pay for vB then LET THEM!
>
> Btw vBulletin costs about $160 US which is about AUD$210 (Hi delfick ;-) )
>
> On 4/24/07, Stephen Moore <delfick755 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > i can't wait till someone somehow manages to argue against that (as
> > always happens).....
> >
> > to me, that sounds like a decent reason :D
> >
> > btw, how much does vbulletin cost ??
> >
> >  On 4/24/07, Matthew Swaringen <xanas3712 at matrixcentral.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Since we are back on the argument about vbulletin again I found the
> > > argument made for it by will he was referring to.  I didn't see any
> > > other extensive argumentation besides the back and forths over this
> > > one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 04:26 +0200, RYX wrote:
> > > > What is the exact reason why we don't use phpBB3? It is free and it
> > > is
> > > > open-source ... I tried it and I can't see a reason for not using
> > > it. I
> > > > find it quite ironic to use commercial software for an open-source
> > > > project's site and have no good feeling about that ... it's kind of
> > > > immoral.
> > >
> > > Morality is not, and should not, be a factor in the equation for two
> > > reasons:
> > >
> > > 1) Morality is _very, very_ subjective (by nature) and no person's
> > > morality is the same as another's. Deciding forum software based upon
> > > morality will lead to nothing more than disagreements: as such the
> > > forum
> > > software should be decided by software's merit.
> > >
> > > 2) There is nothing immoral or amoral with proprietary software. There
> > > are companies that may be immoral with their software, yes, but that
> > > is
> > > as a result of the company's policies.
> > >
> > > When it comes to code quality, features, expandability, maintenance,
> > > upkeep, security, and performance, vBulletin is the simply the best
> > > software available.
> > >
> > > This of course brings into play the whole argument that "Open Source
> > > is
> > > actively developed, so security must not be an issue, right?" Well,
> > > no.
> > > While it's good in theory, and if development is constant, the PHPBB3
> > > development is not nearly as active as other projects (like Firefox
> > > for
> > > example) who can make sure a patch for a security flaw is out and
> > > being
> > > actively distributed within say 24 hours of finding the flaw. As far
> > > as
> > > security goes, vBulletin has in impeccable record of not only being
> > > more
> > > secure to begin with, but also releasing patches ASAP.
> > >
> > > The biggest downfall of PHPBB is not even that, however. The biggest
> > > flaw, is without a doubt, the pure inability to maintain and keep
> > > PHPBB
> > > up-to-date and secure without hours upon hours of manual hacking on
> > > the
> > > source code. This is a wasted effort.
> > >
> > > vBulletin uses a system called Products and Plugins. What these are,
> > > in
> > > lay-men terms, are a series of methods by which scripts/plugins can
> > > use
> > > hooks to inject or modify code that renders the page without manually
> > > editing the source. What this achieves is not only a lot of saved
> > > effort
> > > in expanding the features of the forum, but also make maintainability
> > > an
> > > easy task.
> > >
> > > When it comes to vBulletin upgrades, you won't ever need to hack the
> > > source. The most difficult it becomes is possibly doing a few minor
> > > patching to the theme and, if needed, any upgrades to installed
> > > plugins
> > > or products. One can fully upgrade their vBulletin installation in 20
> > > minutes handily.
> > >
> > > However, with PHPBB, you will be hand-editing the source no matter
> > > what.
> > > You either take the current source and just manually apply the diff
> > > for
> > > every file - most of the time without any exterior aid because if
> > > you've
> > > applied any hack to the code, chances are the changes won't be
> > > _exactly_
> > > correct. The other route, is to install the new version, and then hope
> > > that you can reapply all your old hacks again. As the forum grows, the
> > >
> > > complications in upgrading just get worse and worse and more
> > > time-consuming.
> > >
> > > In regards to features, vBulletin offers much that PHPBB cannot even
> > > attempt to match. AJAX Quick Reply, Multi-Quote, AJAX thread/post
> > > editing, reported posts, built-in warnings & infractions system,
> > > plugins, products, users viewing the thread, similar threads, etc etc.
> > > The list literally goes on and on. These features all combine to make
> > > a
> > > better user experience.
> > >
> > > But above all else, common sense enters the scene. Many corporations
> > > and
> > > extremely large websites (see: Something Awful and MTGSalvation and
> > > Ubuntu Forums) use vBulletin rather than PHPBB or other pay-for
> > > alternatives. There's a _reason_ for this. vBulletin simply is the
> > > best
> > > software for any large, growing community. It's a matter of nothing
> > > more
> > > than "you get what you pay for".
> > >
> > >         Aside: The first person to mention Microsoft is getting
> > > flamed.
> > >                The reason? It's not applicable here. Microsoft has
> > >                essentially had a monopoly for a long while. In
> > > contrast,
> > >                the forum software business has plenty of competition
> > > and
> > >                has for a long while.
> > >
> > >
> > > So what justifies all this added stuff? The community.
> > >
> > > The Beryl forum was one of the most-quickly-growing forums on the net.
> > > It achieved 30,000+ posts in... 6 months? Mind, it's not a Something
> > > Awful-level of posting, but it's far more than many forums even see in
> > > four times that amount of time.
> > >
> > > The Compiz community was fairly active and steadily growing to begin
> > > with. Now we've literally just poured the Beryl community in with the
> > > mix. This expansion is rapid and _will_ continue. As the merge
> > > finishes
> > > and development goes into full swing, and as more distributions
> > > include
> > > Compiz by default, the Compiz forum stands to continue this trend of
> > > expanding generally rapidly.
> > >
> > > With this trend being nothing more than inevitable, we need a software
> > > that is:
> > >
> > > 1) Maintainable
> > > 2) Expandable
> > > 3) Secure
> > >
> > > vBulletin sufficiently provides all three and more. PHPBB3 simply does
> > >
> > > not and will not be able to for what appears to be a long time. PHPBB
> > > is
> > > a good project, make no mistake. However, it is suited to small forums
> > > that see little to moderate activity. It is not suited in the least to
> > > a
> > > growing community.
> > >
> > > The only reasonable choice here _is_ vBulletin.
> > >
> > > > Isn't it more open-source-like to help improving pphBB and support
> > > the
> > > > phpBB-project - instead of supporting some commercial company?? If
> > > > everyone would think like that, there would be no open-source at all
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Unless our community is filled with about 30 PHP and SQL experts who
> > > can
> > > code on PHPBB3 full-time for the next 90 days, there is no way that
> > > PHPBB3 could possibly support the current and future needs of the
> > > community. ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > Just as a matter of note, I've actively used PHPBB2, PHPBB3,
> > > vBulletin,
> > > IPB, MyBB, and other forum softwares, and currently am the maintainer
> > > of
> > > two separate forums using vBulletin.
> > >
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